French RUGBY CONNECTIONS with Veronique Landew & Bill Hooper

Luke Pearce, International Referee all the way from Australia (& with a bit of French thrown in)

September 17, 2021 Veronique Landew & Mike Pearce Season 2 Episode 2
French RUGBY CONNECTIONS with Veronique Landew & Bill Hooper
Luke Pearce, International Referee all the way from Australia (& with a bit of French thrown in)
Show Notes Transcript

This week, this episode is a short and sweet episode (just like me;-), with no Mike Pearce.....but instead I converse with Luke Pearce about the travails of becoming one of the talented International referees at such a young age: 33 years old and the importance of speaking French when officiating a European game in order to create better connections and a  smoother communications style with rugby teams on the pitch.  This episode lasts 23 mins and I can guarantee you will enjoy it . French Rugby CONNECTIONS, the Rugby podcast with the gallic twist! 

1 - episode 2 - season 2 - 17/09

Luke Pearce, International Rugby referee all the way from Australia (whith a bit of French thrown in)

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[00:00:19] Eh, rugby friends and welcome to a new and very fast edition of French rugby connection podcast. A reason being my co-host Mike has been so busy. Speaking with this publisher regarding his new French book about rugby that is been really difficult to get hold of him.

[00:00:41] And also, and also my goodness,  accident with my new car yesterday. So we've had a few program, , catching up, but no worries, it would be back next week. Nice and fresh. And we will deep dive Incredible passionate and exciting world [00:01:00] of the top food scene just very quickly.

[00:01:02] So regarding the top 14 , three teams have won the two games that to lose our house in 92 and cast in terms of.

[00:01:11] Classification. I beg your pardon, the ranking, the classroom Sumo. So , surprise, surprise. We have loose that to lose followed by a hussy 92. Then six June pile was, which is Paul rugby. When you bottle bag number eight, believer, then followed by . And then the last four war surprising enough to loom Carola moon start and start from several rugby.

[00:01:47] So tomorrow the weekend as we like calling, it will start to get, , but in the meantime, guess what? I didn't have Mike PSP instead. I [00:02:00] have. Luke P S I know no relation. Well, you never know because Luke was born so 33 years ago in Wells in Pontypool, but it told me that he only spent two days, obviously.

[00:02:16] In Pontypool before moving to, to Exeter. So again, I was extremely delighted to speak with him because Luke pills, is a very talented, excellent communicator and very humble international referral. And he spent 15 minutes 


of his valuable time, whereas he should have been sleeping in his bed as he was pulling me from all the way from Australia as is reffing , the cells and international last week.

[00:02:49] He was reffing Australia versus South Africa. And guess what kitty commentator said that it was a pleasure to hear a new voice in Australian [00:03:00] rugby. And other people have said that he has mannerism of when bounds strong on field commentary for the players, which is great. But having said that, I think that Luke Pierre speaks of French better than, than when bonds  

[00:03:16] . But again, you know, our thing is he's only 33 years old, basically to know where head of him of being a great international referee. So I hope you enjoy my chat with him or be friends. Hi, how are you? Oh, shall I say exactly? It is? Yeah, it's pretty late already. I do apologize , because I've been so involved in know , since the top 14 has started, so that's why I had my laptop, you know, set up on the French time.

[00:03:54] So I do apologize. I it's very late in the day. And and I would like to thank you for [00:04:00] being my yea, my. The first guest on French rugby connections, because last year you were due to be in, but we had a few technical problems. So thank you very much for not forgetting about me. Look. No, no worries.

[00:04:15] And look, tell me, so what was he doing in Australia? The rugby championship. So I refereed Australia South Africa last weekend. I'm clutch again this weekend for Australia, South Africa, again, and then I referee New Zealand, South Africa. Next sense of brilliant. Brilliant. And , how does it differ from a referring in, the Heineken champion cup, for instance?

[00:04:36] It's different test. I'm a step above, you know, it's quicker, it's more physical, it's lots of big moments and big decisions. So it's just important that you try and get those, right. And it's the amount of people that watch or see international abuse again, more than, than the European cup steps to it's.

[00:04:54] Yeah, it's, it's, it's where you want to be as a referee is where you want to be performing, but [00:05:00] it's it's also a challenge as well. And what does it finish? This finishes 25th, this. Okay. And then you will be back in the UK in a perfect Albion. Like I, I got home, I have a week off or two weeks off and then I'm straight back into primary ship and European then starts in December.

[00:05:18] Yes. Brilliant, brilliant. So nuke. So have you seen, we've been in 


touch before and you know, as I said to you many times, I'm really impressed by the level of French that you have now. The European league and you even better than when bats, but can tell me more about you. , what was your journey to become an international rugby referee?

[00:05:39] I, I played at the junior level when I was really young and then I just started to referee locally and in access to their endeavor and where I'm from it. I slowly worked my way up the ladder and yeah, so. Professional now with the RFU for 11 years. Wow. You know, it's crazy to think it's been that long, but it's like 33 now and I was [00:06:00] 20.

[00:06:00] Yeah. 22. When I started there. Were you one of the youngest at that stage? Yeah, I think so. Obviously there are some guys now who are getting onto the scene who were younger as well, but this job is about trying to survive for as long as you can at the highest level. There is so much happening in so many so much media attention to media focus now on, on rugby that it's important that you just do your best to stay in the job as long as you can.

[00:06:25] And I have to say. All you sorry for my phone station or like French would say is that I've been really, really impressed by your style of riffing, you know, in the last, year referring the Heineken shop. You are very clear on what you trying to achieve.

[00:06:42] And also, you know, you have started speaking French so tell me , about learning French. What was the trigger you? I think that was a trigger. I think it's important that whenever you spend time in a different country, that you try and speak their language and we spend a lot of time with.

[00:06:58] Mainly because of the [00:07:00] European cup and it's just like, I, I learned basic French in school. And then I was lucky that when I joined the RFU 11 years ago, that we had a French teacher coming to the Cummins, took it in once a week. So in the last couple of years, I just thought it was really important that we just get it to go to, to try and speak it.

[00:07:19] I'm sure as everyone knows with languages, the more that you try and the more you spend time there, the easier it slowly becomes. And. You know, I'm still improving. I still want to improve, but I think it just makes a big difference when people see you trying to make an effort to speak it, rather than just trying to think it's all.

[00:07:35] And I think that's the thing that's really important in our job. I agree. 100% as well. And when bounds as well in the officiate, as what? In French. 


And so tell me a few words in French in that you use on a regular basis when you refer some some hydro case breaking.

[00:07:55] And that's your, she said, she said match. So it's [00:08:00] still too, I think. We, the Capitan, I will see that the On the donuts up cartels.

[00:08:09] at all. France for example, a panel to lose the Chanel was trying to say, I'll say Trump on for the public connects, you know, I've only match the I'm sure I'll be fair. He, he knows. I'm trying to, he knows I'm trying to speak and get along with him. It's language. So it's really important.

[00:08:26] But no, it's definitely, it's definitely got room for improvement. It's not perfect, but it will. It's coming on slowly. It's even better than my English. You know, I've been living here for donkeys, donkeys or donkeys years for many, many years. Anyway. That's amazing. I think you use parties until you were saying, you know, our task really quickly is that you felt that it was really pivotal for you to be able to speak, you know, some, some French, especially when you were reffing.

[00:08:52] Because the head coach, she doesn't speak a word of English. Is that correct? Yeah. So the coaches speak French and I'm [00:09:00] sure they speak English as well, but if they see you trying to make an effort to speak French, then they will make an effort with you in English. I think it just helps build that connection between the coach and the referee, which is really 100%.

[00:09:12] And, you know, I picked up on the fact that you said, you know, the younger generation such as. Are pretty good at speaking English. And I've spotted that as. I think it's because of the fuck, you know, they watch, you know, lots of a series on Netflix, which are not the hub and YouTube and so on. And yeah, I, I I've noticed that for the older generation it's a bit, it was, it's a bit more difficult, you know, so it's but it's sort of seen as being, being beneficial to when you try to make an effort in, in speaking French.

[00:09:43] So, so would you be, yeah, especially with the French teams and the French teams are very passionate, but very. You know, the French rugby is so good and so unique that if they see people trying, then it's a big, big, big accomplishment rather than not trying. It's all [00:10:00] wrecking. Right. So how do you keep up with your friends?

[00:10:03] You take some classes on Duolingo or you just, yeah. Yeah. I went all out. We'd obviously we traveled a lot, so I listen to podcasts or I listened to some of the some of the French lessons on, on podcasts or on the internet. I also 


read, I read a lot of the, the French newspapers and like, I don't understand most of it, but I can pick up quite a lot of words, phrases, or especially with the rugby.

[00:10:28] Obviously the rugby at the moment for top 14 is on premier sport. Yes. It's hard to watch. So it's important that we keep up to date with the results and how the matches are. So yeah, I tried to really keep and just try and keep, keep earning it awareness of. That's absolutely amazing. You, your real style have to say.

[00:10:48] And in terms of you know, refereeing an English game in the premier league versus reffing, you know Heineken , what are the main differences you see? I think the main difference for the European cup is [00:11:00] it's a, you have full matches in the pool stage and then is. So every single game, the referee, the Heineken cup is so important.

[00:11:08] The premiership is obviously very important, but it's a long season. It's 2022 matches it's semifinals finals. So if a team lose one game in a season, then it's not the end of the tournament. Whereas in the, in the Heineken cup, if they lose one match, it could be the whole, the whole tournament could be over four.

[00:11:26] And it's such a unique and special competition that, you know, it's the, it's the one level. International. So it's so important to the teams. Players want to win that at Heineken gut, which is so, you know, as I was, I, sorry, Bates means so, so much to everybody. So you, you know, the importance, you know, the issue.

[00:11:43] And it does, that's the big difference for me is that is that's that knockout factor compared to a long leaks is, yeah, it's very much like the UFA chunkier league, which started yesterday, which I bet you, I, football fan, are you. Yeah, I tried to watch it. [00:12:00] So I'm from Exeter. So I got an extra city.

[00:12:07] That's certainly not near the champions league. That's okay. That's okay. Courses for horses or horses for courses or things of that, you know, but yes. And for our listeners who haven't heard too much about you can you like happy to late recap, you know, the main European games that you ref , last season, Yeah.

[00:12:28] So I was, I was lucky enough to referee the final and to lose an hour Charlotte at Twickenham, which was a really special when you work in Twickenham and that's your office to also do the European cup final. That was 


very special. Before that I did the claimants and to lose a quarter of. And then obviously we're in the six nations I referred on in France, Wales, France.

[00:12:46] It's a lot of time spent in France and wrestling and not sprays racing and Edinburgh. So yeah, we spend a lot of time in France referee and French teams to see us that our hope is that once we're back from our European or international I want to be stripped back into the phone for games in November.

[00:12:59] [00:13:00] Yeah. Brilliant. I starting soon. Yeah. Con wait, , we need, we need some rugby , to keep us going. And in terms of rugby related matter, if you were to give an advice to somebody that that would like to become a referee, which advice would you give to a young person? Difficult.

[00:13:18] I think when I joined, I, I never thought it would become my job. I joined because it was my hobby and I still find it's still my hobby. Obviously it, it helps pay my bills now, but I do it because I enjoy it. And I think that's the main, the main thing too, if anything you do is because you, you enjoy doing.

[00:13:36] And even if to the young referee you got to do as many games as possible it's experience like any job is the most important. But, but that enjoyment part is huge. And if you, if you enjoy every single game that you do, then if you end up climbing the ladder and making the top, then fantastic. If you don't, then you can still enjoy every single level of rugby anyway, which is she's most.

[00:13:55] I think when Bart needs to watch his back to be perfectly honest, it's, it's [00:14:00] soon going to be retired in us as Fonzie bonds is a good friend divided. We were laughing after world cup in Japan, and we thought maybe you dive in east fitter. Now, then he's editing. And the you certainly set to the level from the top and it's good to be true.

[00:14:14] One day, actually, we'll go. We'll be able to get the same level of Mercedes. I would call it a middle, middle age or syndrome, you know, always between you and we know nobody would hear that. And is there a game that really, really had an impact on you in terms of referring in over the last, let's say five years.

[00:14:43] The world cup is probably something that I will always remember being because of the world cup and referee and games that I'm in Japan. But to me, the most important is, you know, my, my first six nations game, whatever I'll always remember, it was, it's an Evo Scotland. And then obviously you finished last season six nations with [00:15:00] the potential grand slam game in  


Paris, France, and Wales would always be.

[00:15:03] It'll be better this year, I think is hopefully supporters will be back in the stadium, but yeah, but that the six nations games, we'll always, we'll always be. The I indeed. And do you have any return roles before assignation game at all? Because I know some players, you know, the like putting their socks in a special way.

[00:15:23] I know likes having a shower before each game. He likes being keen. When Bard's, I've got no idea, but I know that once he forgot his socks and his shoes. When you reffed game a to lose. So somebody had to have to let him one, but do you have any, any they're nice. They're nice. It's the most important I enjoy is after a game is having a couple of beers with my team and relaxing.

[00:15:46] That's the most important part for me because you try your best on the field. You hope that it will be good enough. Sometimes you make mistakes. Sometimes it goes, well, you try your best. But the most important part for me is after the game. You enjoy the company of your team. [00:16:00] And then before you, before you go on and do you happen to socialize with the opponents as well with the teams after the, and we try to, you know, it's, it's difficult, obviously the whole COVID thing changed that a bit, but especially with thing with internationals, normally that you get the post-match.

[00:16:15] Mail and you get the speeches and you can see players and coaches out of the environment on the pitch. And, you know, for example, we spent, when we arrived in Australia, we had to quarantine with the Argentina and South Africa teams. And it was just amazing just to be with them for two weeks. They realized the referees are human and they're not.

[00:16:31] And I think that goes a long way sometimes because when we're on the pitch, it's very difficult. We really make decisions. And some people like them in some people. But then think when they can see that we're actually human beings, it makes it, it makes us 100%. And as you know, have the kitty, kitty, what is his full name?

[00:16:48] You know, on my podcast. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So you were saying exactly the same thing is that first of all, let's not forget is that rugby referees are rugby [00:17:00] lovers. You love the games and you ended up being a rugby referee because you know, if the game. I ended up the rules, but obviously, you know, it's it's, it's it's a privilege for you to be on the pitch and, you know, reffing, you know, some of the best world teams or yeah.


[00:17:16] QQ does, would you would you agree with this statement? Definitely. You know, that's, it's, it's, it's something that you don't, you get into refereeing rugby because you really enjoy the game. When you end up refereeing at these amazing stadiums and in front of crowds, the best players in the world, then.

[00:17:32] You really feel how lucky you are and then you just hope the game goes well and you hope there are no big wrong decisions and then you can walk away any enjoy after the game. Yes. You feel blessed. I'm in such a privileged position to be in most of the time, most of the time. So , Luke geo is it?

[00:17:52] who retired and now he's part of Fabion gets heat. 

[00:17:58] Advice live blue, [00:18:00] how best to behave with with the referee. Do you think it's a good tactic, good strategy from a.

[00:18:09] Definitely a and every, every team does it in a different way. For example, I know with the England team that between Wayne, myself and Matthew Cardi, we go in with the England team, maybe once every three or four months, just to make sure that what they're doing is correct and trying to help them, making sure that we can put the best kind of rugby on the field.

[00:18:30] And when, when games start. Yeah. I think once people realize that it's not referees against teams, it's actually working together to get the best outcome. And I think the teams have realized that more and more now. Absolutely. Yeah. So how do you say, okay, we're going to test your French or rugby French.

[00:18:47] Now, as you know, I've got a rugby French lesson every week with Mike PSU, long loss related. No, actually you're not related, but you are from, you were born in Wales originally. I was, yeah. Yeah. My family were [00:19:00] born in Wales and I was there for about a day before I moved out to exit. So it's it's the same thing that comes up every time I read free whales, but I could, I worked for the English and I've lived in England.

[00:19:12] Two days at my early lunch, imagining being Welsh, you would have been the new Nigel Owen. So I'm glad that you are, but I'm neutral. I'm French, . And so how, how are you feeling now? 

[00:19:25] Are you excited by the autumn international? How do you prepare for that? Do you have some regular weekly meeting at the RSU with all the others? It work. So we're in Twickenham every Monday, Tuesdays? Yes. 


Obviously not at the moment because I'm in Australia faring for the New Zealand South Africa.

[00:19:43] When I get home from here, I will have two weeks off. And then we will find out our ultimate international games, hopefully in the next couple of weeks. And then it's all down to referee back in the premiership and prepare them for November after November. Then it's the same. Again, you go back to the premiership and European [00:20:00] cup and hope that your performances are good enough to get into six nations.

[00:20:03] So that's the, that's a cycle of how we work. It's yeah, it's it's, it's good. It's very professional. It's very. And I think people realize that it's, it's a professional. It's not just that it's not a walk in the park by any means. It's a, it's a very, very thorough process for every weekend. Definitely.

[00:20:19] So many rules, you know, that abide by the rules. And have you heard about the new rules to the top 14 as well? Yeah. And I saw from the weekend a drop goal in the Claremont cascades from, from the dropout. We in the street to see people are now doing new things with the laws.

[00:20:35] And again, hopefully will become more and more exciting and more people will watch it and it will become bigger and bigger. That's the, that's the holiday that these laws . And finally know, I couldn't leave you without testing your wonderful work, be French. So just a few words. How do you say let go.

[00:20:52] Yeah, very good. I hear

[00:20:54] How do you say a really easy one? The Darby Darby[00:21:00] 

[00:21:03] arrests. Have you seen? Yeah, that's right. A scrum half.

[00:21:14] That's correct. I may, I socialize me, I guess, where you as crumb half in your early rugby carrier. Am I wrong? I got it. You see more than a pretty face? I knew it. I knew it. Brilliant. Hence your

[00:21:29] your energy, your strategy, you, hi I'm brain cells and Swami. I got it straight away. Yes. Quick one.

[00:21:38] Hey, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. I wish you all the best in Australia and I hope to meet you very, very soon at Twickenham or somewhere. Informs, definitely look for the CA. Yes, you bet. Okay. Messy. 


[00:21:56] So rugby friends. I hope you enjoy this [00:22:00] fast and furious. Well, maybe not furious and feisty a French rugby connection without my, a delightful Welsh cohost who couldn't make it, but it'll be back and we'll have a deep dive double door. French would be a top 14 next weekend. And of course I'd have another guest.

[00:22:23] So surprise, surprise. So you will have a great weekend. And I look forward to speaking with all of you next weekend, whereas most you might be us over.

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